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#1 George Geist

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:28 AM

It is with sadness and disgust that we see the Breeders Cup Committee has reversed itself on the policy of prohibiting race day drug use at this years Breeders Cup.

http://www.bloodhors...oard-over-salix

Disappointing as it is I'm not surprised. These people quite predictably will always backslide as soon as the threat of government intervention is removed or significantly diminished.

 

Worst thing about it is it was an opportunity to salvage a little bit of integrity for the sport. Now it's become another opportunity squandered.

 

For those of us that advocate drug free racing we'll continue the fight, but I for one cannot defend this sorry excuse for a sport against the humaniacs.

George


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#2 chris

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:45 AM

the use of packages and so called "special " shoes , blocks , stickers , wedges should be on the list of not to be used , im fed up with the BS spouted from horseshoers who use gimmicks supposedly to enhance performance , the horse is either good enough or not and all the crap you boys stick on the end of the leg can only aid in hampering performance



#3 hoofhearted

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

I find their back tracking disgusting. It's indicative that they've no principles and are not acting in the interests of the horse.
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#4 brian robertson

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

It's always been about the money not the horses



#5 Gaitinfool

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:45 AM

True, money always comes first


I used to care but I take a pill for that now

#6 George Geist

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:27 AM

Here we have a much more sensible and sane viewpoint from an Australian Vet:

http://www.paulickre...ry-perspective/

 

And here we have a little more detail about their reasoning for this lame decision:

http://www.paulickre...lasix-decision/

George



#7 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:00 AM

the use of packages and so called "special " shoes , blocks , stickers , wedges should be on the list of not to be used , im fed up with the BS spouted from horseshoers who use gimmicks supposedly to enhance performance , the horse is either good enough or not and all the crap you boys stick on the end of the leg can only aid in hampering performance

I use wedges on some horses on the track; it helps when you have no heels on the horse; and blocks I used last year; because if you saw our tracks; you will understand.  I have used stickers on the couple to help widen them up; it's like a trailer; lateral ext to the show horse.

we use no-vibes, and outer rims going on a horse in a few weeks; it's helps this horse.

I have LT on one horse now in training.



#8 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:03 AM

it's the drugs used; ie. pre-race esp., banamine for 3 days; then a bute shot 24 hrs out to help on inflammatory.   Lasix...Salix now is used.

breeding for speed index--not for  temp, conformation, or feet.



#9 brian robertson

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:27 PM

I guess the winners I have shod, with gimmicks that Chris dislikes, should send back their purse money and go off and die because Chris doesn't think they deserved to win?

 

Good shoeing beats bad shoeing hands down; but if I can use a "gimmick" that will keep a horse from hitting himself, slipping or sliding, hyper flexing one or more joints or coming up sore; I'll use it. Remember, I was one of those wacko guys grinding down the toe grabs on front shoes in the '70s; who knew it would only take 40yrs to be in style.

 

Who are we, as farriers, to say somebody's horse isn't good enough or shouldn't get the help we can offer in order to win a competition. If we killed off all the less than perfect horses; we wouldn't have many left...



#10 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

I guess the winners I have shod, with gimmicks that Chris dislikes, should send back their purse money and go off and die because Chris doesn't think they deserved to win?

 

Good shoeing beats bad shoeing hands down; but if I can use a "gimmick" that will keep a horse from hitting himself, slipping or sliding, hyper flexing one or more joints or coming up sore; I'll use it. Remember, I was one of those wacko guys grinding down the toe grabs on front shoes in the '70s; who knew it would only take 40yrs to be in style.

 

Who are we, as farriers, to say somebody's horse isn't good enough or shouldn't get the help we can offer in order to win a competition. If we killed off all the less than perfect horses; we wouldn't have many left...

we have tracks to that need this help.   Europe and others must have a better track system than here in the states.

also, the typedia  [synthetic] tracks give to much; and a result; riders have been badly injured here.

Chris, I'll show you our tracks next time; you will be amazed at the lack there of..........and will have a better sense of our troubled system over here.



#11 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

and on the grinding down the toe grabs; not enough is just as bad; and now the soft tissue injuries are more apparent than ever.   toe-grabs caused the twists and bone fractures; now not enough is causing a another problem.

also the quaility of shoeing has gone down; we still have the LTLH here; just now we have added the fastbreak shoe to it; but without changing the angles of the foot; because they still want that long stride that the long toe will provide--which it does not!  



#12 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

you still have the problem of the changing the minds of the trainers/owners; they say yeah; but then they do just the opposite; and have LTLH on a horse that is ready to run.



#13 George Geist

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:54 PM

the use of packages and so called "special " shoes , blocks , stickers , wedges should be on the list of not to be used , im fed up with the BS spouted from horseshoers who use gimmicks supposedly to enhance performance , the horse is either good enough or not and all the crap you boys stick on the end of the leg can only aid in hampering performance

 

 

I use wedges on some horses on the track; it helps when you have no heels on the horse; and blocks I used last year; because if you saw our tracks; you will understand.  I have used stickers on the couple to help widen them up; it's like a trailer; lateral ext to the show horse.

we use no-vibes, and outer rims going on a horse in a few weeks; it's helps this horse.

I have LT on one horse now in training.

 

 

I guess the winners I have shod, with gimmicks that Chris dislikes, should send back their purse money and go off and die because Chris doesn't think they deserved to win?

 

Good shoeing beats bad shoeing hands down; but if I can use a "gimmick" that will keep a horse from hitting himself, slipping or sliding, hyper flexing one or more joints or coming up sore; I'll use it. Remember, I was one of those wacko guys grinding down the toe grabs on front shoes in the '70s; who knew it would only take 40yrs to be in style.

 

Who are we, as farriers, to say somebody's horse isn't good enough or shouldn't get the help we can offer in order to win a competition. If we killed off all the less than perfect horses; we wouldn't have many left...

 

 

we have tracks to that need this help.   Europe and others must have a better track system than here in the states.

also, the typedia  [synthetic] tracks give to much; and a result; riders have been badly injured here.

Chris, I'll show you our tracks next time; you will be amazed at the lack there of..........and will have a better sense of our troubled system over here.

 

 

and on the grinding down the toe grabs; not enough is just as bad; and now the soft tissue injuries are more apparent than ever.   toe-grabs caused the twists and bone fractures; now not enough is causing a another problem.

also the quaility of shoeing has gone down; we still have the LTLH here; just now we have added the fastbreak shoe to it; but without changing the angles of the foot; because they still want that long stride that the long toe will provide--which it does not!  

 

 

you still have the problem of the changing the minds of the trainers/owners; they say yeah; but then they do just the opposite; and have LTLH on a horse that is ready to run.

Thread is about drugs folks. Shoeing gimmicks and methodologies would fit in real good in Race Plating if anybody would like to kick it off up there?

George



#14 brian robertson

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

Getting back to drugs or as they say "better living though modern chemistry".

 

Anybody still using "milkshakes"?

 

2weeks ago i shod one of the best looking gray OTTBs I've seen in a long time. Client got him from the rescue and was fostering him before deciding on purchasing. Pulled his plates(decent, not very old job) and put him in steel. The guy seemed to have a lot of class and stood like a rock. I stayed to watch him ride, saw he was way too quiet and expressed my concern. Told her not to buy without Vet/drug test. I was thinking that long acting tq RESPERPINE.

 

Long story short,The Vet called and thanked me for saving that woman's life and that horse's heart valves are operating at about 15to20%,most likely from drug use. Blood gases test showed very little O2 and too much muscle enzymes. He wasn't that quiet,he was in a constant state of exhaustion. Vet recommendation was no riding; not safe at any speed. Maybe a pasture decoration but not for very long.

 

He wouldn't tell me which drugs are known for damaging heart valves/making them run faster.


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#15 George Geist

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

Getting back to drugs or as they say "better living though modern chemistry".

 

Anybody still using "milkshakes"?

 

2weeks ago i shod one of the best looking gray OTTBs I've seen in a long time. Client got him from the rescue and was fostering him before deciding on purchasing. Pulled his plates(decent, not very old job) and put him in steel. The guy seemed to have a lot of class and stood like a rock. I stayed to watch him ride, saw he was way too quiet and expressed my concern. Told her not to buy without Vet/drug test. I was thinking that long acting tq RESPERPINE.

 

Long story short,The Vet called and thanked me for saving that woman's life and that horse's heart valves are operating at about 15to20%,most likely from drug use. Blood gases test showed very little O2 and too much muscle enzymes. He wasn't that quiet,he was in a constant state of exhaustion. Vet recommendation was no riding; not safe at any speed. Maybe a pasture decoration but not for very long.

 

He wouldn't tell me which drugs are known for damaging heart valves/making them run faster.

Yeah sorry to say. Milkshakes are commonly used. Occasionally they'll go through the motions of pretending to crackdown but horsemen's organizations send lawyers guns and money ready to fight to the death to defend anybody who gets caught. After about 2 years of abusing the appeals process if they haven't beaten it entirely they might get about a week suspension and maybe a $50 fine.

 

Then again there is a way to administer a milkshake so it will not be detected. They give them incrementally in 15 minute intervals somehow during the 4 hour period after they get their lasix and it wont test. For this reason for the most part the miniscule number that gets caught it's really their own fault.

 

This other stuff you're talking about could be almost anything but I suspect it to be that cancer drug I can't remember the name of. The stuff is used to build red cells on people undergoing radiation, chemo etc.

 

Used in horses it works as a blood doping agent. It can't be detected by testing and it works well but temporarily. After using it for a while the horses blood becomes thickened to the point of being like syrup. Withdrawl symptoms of horses shot up with this stuff include a very distinctive uncontrollable shaking reminiscent of a drunk with the DTs.

 

Not being a vet I'd hate to speculate on what damaged that horses heart like that but if I were to wager on it I'd bet on that stuff.

George



#16 brian robertson

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

And the industry "wonders" why they can't draw new people/money into the horse business. Whether it's racing or showing, when the newbies get wind of the nasty side, they run for the hills


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#17 Linda Muggleworth

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:27 PM

Getting back to drugs or as they say "better living though modern chemistry".

 

Anybody still using "milkshakes"?

 

2weeks ago i shod one of the best looking gray OTTBs I've seen in a long time. Client got him from the rescue and was fostering him before deciding on purchasing. Pulled his plates(decent, not very old job) and put him in steel. The guy seemed to have a lot of class and stood like a rock. I stayed to watch him ride, saw he was way too quiet and expressed my concern. Told her not to buy without Vet/drug test. I was thinking that long acting tq RESPERPINE.

 

Long story short,The Vet called and thanked me for saving that woman's life and that horse's heart valves are operating at about 15to20%,most likely from drug use. Blood gases test showed very little O2 and too much muscle enzymes. He wasn't that quiet,he was in a constant state of exhaustion. Vet recommendation was no riding; not safe at any speed. Maybe a pasture decoration but not for very long.

 

He wouldn't tell me which drugs are known for damaging heart valves/making them run faster.

also the drug....prolixin....a human drug as well; it is a 30 day Tranq.....and a bad horse will be calm. till wears off; then buyer beware.



#18 Gaitinfool

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE:  This other stuff you're talking about could be almost anything but I suspect it to be that cancer drug I can't remember the name of. The stuff is used to build red cells on people undergoing radiation, chemo etc.

 

Is that epigen or epogin?


I used to care but I take a pill for that now

#19 George Geist

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

Is that epigen or epogin?

I really can't remember Karen.

For some reason I'm thinking of something that starts with a letter C.

Can you think of anything like that maybe? Maybe Linda might know.

 

They use so much crap on those animals, stuff with mile long names even the vets often don't know what the stuff is.

If somebody says it I'll remember and I'll post it so I don't forget.

George



#20 George Geist

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

I notice also that since the Bleeders Cup committee made their cowardly, disgraceful, quisling decision not to pursue drug free racing for three year olds this year, I've not gotten any e-mail updates from Clean Horse Racing. My hope is that it didn't totally torpedo the organization.

http://cleanhorseracing.org/

On the upside though, we can see by their website that there are more and more horses running and winning without lasix every day.

George


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